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sadge state of the mud (Jinjer)back

2021/11/09 22:13, Jinjer: 
Jinjer was very sad to not welcome pewks to his tunnel after he had to walk the yellow eye!

2021/11/09 22:42, Tweet:Rated: Superb 
Well, that looked like *sfun*, can only rate it 'awwsome' since you survived.

2021/11/09 23:55, Tiresus: 
The more things change, the more they stay the same.

2021/11/10 08:22, Ain:Rated: Superb 
When fighting in berserk there should be a chance that opponent can't flee out of combat.

2021/11/10 11:13, Facelift:  Rated: Superb 
Imagine trying to sun a newbie. What a cunt. Imma fuck you up.

2021/11/10 19:46, Enforcer: 
Da fuck Rael? Didn't expect this from you :(

2021/11/11 14:45, Ohtacaron: 
Well Jinjer forgot to mention he was not alone infact he was with Bonanza and they spammed hitting my horse from slag until it died some north of roots. True is that i got a bit pissed off and when they splitted to pingpong me i tried to sleep him...and well i succeded! Anyway, i was thinking his mate would have guessed he was asleep (not seeing any reply to tells) ..but apparently he was too eager to kill me in open to think about that ... too bad i failed second sleep on him. @Enforcer My friend Gandalf tought me the best way to slay trolls is to force them to stay a bit on the sun without any 50 + Sun protection on! Rael ? who is Rael ? Trolls can be sunned , there is not any rule against it. It's unpopular and not well seen but please try not to mix roleplaying with asshole behaviour.

2021/11/11 15:11, Torkild: 
Yeah leave p Rael be. He's just roleplaying an asshole as he always does.

2021/11/11 15:25, Ohtacaron: 
@Torkild hearing this from you is so funny ! you made my day

2021/11/11 15:28, Torkild: 
Okay? Good for you mate.

2021/11/11 16:56, Cyndane: 
You're a douchebag, and will be treated as such.

Go choke on a dick.

2021/11/11 19:36, Ezmodius:Rated: Good 
Lame excuses. Sounds like you're the Ben Affleck of role players: i.e. you can only play yourself. Hope to be in the position to mob rip you as often as possible.

2021/11/12 09:28, Jeraziah:  Rated: Awful 
pRael at his best.

2021/11/13 02:42, Bonanza:   
Bonanza was fleeing from sun after your failed attempts to sleep him.

2021/11/16 01:59, Bight:   
RP elements are no good when they are this toxic. The age-old sleep/sundeath argument causes players to fight each other outside of the game. Why should a player, in the heat of battle, be able to demote their enemy to level 1 for fear that their eq is soon to follow the fate of their trusty horse? Meanwhile, we can cheat and only lose a few levels. All the hate is placed on the player when the game shouldn't allow this in the first place.

My proposed solution: Trolls should wake 1 tick before sunrise/regress if they are player-slept in a room that can potentially sundeath them. And sleep spell should fail 100% of the time if cast on troll within 1 tick of sunrise/regress if cast in such a room. Maybe that's tricky to program or maybe no one cares, but I'd rather take the power away from the player than demand or hope that they be a better sport.

Also... Bad form!

2021/11/16 11:26, Portocale:Rated: Good 
Ruining thousands of hours of play for someone using a single spell should not be possible, but unfortunately it is. That being the case, when you murder someone with a knife, its not the knife maker's fault, nor the knife seller's, that should be common sense, given we're all adults.

Ohtacaron tried to sun Jinjer on purpose, while knowing his approximate level, and how much work it took to reach that. There is no excuse, and no forgiveness from me, and probably the majority of the player base.

There is an item in DG that wakes up trolls, but the ainus made sure the mechanics are so anoying, that no trolls will ever use it...would be a good start if that gets tweaked but from my experience, there is nothing wrong with DG, and the people in charge know better then the people actually playing the game.
If you feel sleep is broken and utterly retarded, and that fixing such issues that drive people away would be beneficial for the community, please continue to spam the idea/bug board, as we have been doing for the last 10-20 years.

2021/11/16 16:02, Cohen:   
Sunning troll is bad thing, but it is not full fault of Ohtacaron that sun really hit Jinjer
- from mvs regen it seems it was more than 1 tick to sunrise, so Jinjer had full freedom to drop the link.
- group of 2 trolls should be 'immune' to single caster and sleep
- there is an item for trolls to help with sleep/sundeath situation now

2021/11/16 19:20, Cyndane: 
It's not the puke's fault? It's exclusively the puke's fault. In no way, shape, or form, can the blame be placed on anyone other than Ohtacaron.

It's a sleazy, grimy, scumbag move, which if anyone is capable of considering, let alone trying to succeed, shows a lot about their character.

There is literally no way that this can be justified in a way that doesn't make you the scum of the earth.

You are either so filled with self-loathing that you don't respect yourself at all, or you are broken in some unredeemable manner. Either way, I feel sorry for you.

Not too sorry, though, because whenever I drag myself onto this game again, I'm going to spend it doing what I can to ruin your playtime.

2021/11/17 15:55, Soilwork:edited 1x   
Haven't played in a while due to Gloomhaven dedication, I would argue for instead of discussing the 'remove sunrip' idea that is instantly a noidea to 'suffer 1 lvl drop to instawake'. In a way this could prevent more of the solo-kind of sunripping that feels so shitty, wouldn't break game-mechanics since most people would rather rip in pk if slept inside in the dark than loose 1 lvl to instawake and perhaps get more people to play solo trolls, the way it should be.

2021/11/18 00:03, Ohm:   
The real tragedy that buries MUME deeper down each time is that you all discuss PEOPLE instead of FACTS. Efforts to change the game, create a better environment, less disastrous losses, instead of flaming people, we would surely have a better community thus a better and more crowded game.

2021/11/18 10:58, Portocale:edited 2x  Rated: Good 
@Cohen: The item is so annoying that I'm yet to see a troll that uses it. You will get woken up every tick, and unable to remove it, since cursed. How exactly is not Ohtacaron's 'full fault', the facts are clear, he slept Jinjer in open, 1 tick before sunrise. Unless he slipped on the soap and hit the 'sleep' button with his head, then there is no accident here, he takes the full blame.

@Soilwork: Trolls are way to strong as they are, if you also remove the sun weakness, it will turn them into unstoppable beasts. They could fix the sleep spell instead, a skill specifically designed to grief people. I cant think of a single instance where using it same side, or cross side would yield any positive outcome, in its current form.

@Ohm: WTF are you talking about? The log is about Ohta trying to sun Jinjer, so we discuss that mainly. For improving the game, there are quite a few open discussions, and I'm sure thousands of posts on idea/bug board in game, if you got access to it. Lots of people, me included, been constantly reporting broken items/mechanics for the last 20 years or so, we're doing our part, so it comes down to the ainus to listen and fix, where its agreed upon.

2021/11/18 17:47, Cyndane: 
So, Ohm suggests, instead of fixing garbage people, we should change the game to suit prevent garbage people from being garbage people?

Maybe I'm alone in this, but if you are a garbage person willing to destroy countless hours of someone's playtime over a horse mob, I don't want you to play this game. I don't care if there aren't many people, you aren't welcome.

2021/11/18 23:33, Ohm:   
Itís fine to discuss peopleís actions, sure. But often limits are pushed.

My whole point, Portocale and Mike, is that:
- yes, he was an asshole. Sunning trolls is ridiculous.
- game allowing such things sort of create opportunities for assholes, which could be reduced if some changes were applied.

Sunning trolls to lvl 1, mob deaths costing millions of XP to high level chars, yeah, that all makes game worse.

And to @Portocale: I also have been writing ideas and fixes for ages. Never got feedbacks.

2021/11/19 16:18, Torkild: 
The potential of loss was part of what made Mume good. I mean when it was good

2021/11/20 00:19, Impious:   
I would think in the long run the person sunning an olog has more to lose than the olog. Unless anonymous/incognito, he will be always remembered as a troll-sunner. Getting those levels back is possible, hi svarten. getting back to nonsunner is impossible, hi vainamoinen.

if you really want to be an arse and sun an olog, make sure you are not named, the char is incognito, you never brag about it and rent before the angry olog logs to ainu. even then there is a fat chance someone noticed who was the only legend sleeper online...we trolls might have low int, but we do have a long memory.

2021/11/20 10:58, Fitzcarraldo:Rated: Awful 
MUME's game design encourages antisocial behavior. More than any other game I have ever played. Being able to sleep, and therefore sun-kill and nearly 'delete' another player's character is an absurd ability in a game where you dump so much time into levelling your character. No other game would ever even consider implementing such an ability. This is part of what makes MUME so special, but is also just one feature in a set of game design choices that encourages emotional hostility between players.

The amount of time it takes to accomplish anything in the game, and how easy it is to lose any progress you have made, particularly due to other players, results in the cesspool that is ER. You can farm XP all day to get a level, then mobdie and lose that level due to 1 mistake. If that mistake is even partially due to someone in your group, that builds hostility and resentment between a group of players who are supposed to be the same side of the war. Also, it discourages veterans from grouping with newbies, and encourages elitist attitudes that make it harder for MUME to attract new players.

And then there's PK. I wasn't around back in the day when there were tons of players, but it seems to me that back then it didn't matter that PK was inherently totally imbalanced and unfair because you could always find some action, there were a variety of *targets* at wildly different skill levels, people played more casually and died a lot more. The power differences between individual characters back then probably just made for much more interesting PK situations, and could easily be negated the number of players participating.

Now in 2021, you have a handful of players left in the game overall, all of whom have been playing for years, on characters they have invested a lot of time in, and with nice equipment to lose. Most of the players left are more focused on leveling and minimizing risk. They are not going to willingly enter 'fair' PvP situation where they have a 50% chance of dying, and possibly getting all of their equipment looted or getting rekilled. This is the behavior the current game design encourages. The PKers we all admire the most (Snakr, Torkild, Dong, Cyndane, etc.), who actually take chances and do 1v1s against randos are playing against the grain, and in spite of the current state of game.

So most of the PK that still happens is when one or more players sees an opportunity where they have a significant advantage over *others*, i.e. overkills. Which results in more ill will between players. On top of this, there are so few players left, that everybody knows everybody, and enmities build up between particular individuals over perceived wrongs, and they act on this by treating each other worse by rekilling, gaccing, etc.

And asking for major feature changes seems pointless. No-one is developing MUME anymore. The only talented and industrious developer left is Jahara, and he doesn't even access to the C code. We have builders that add new zones, but these additions are really just more of the same, with slight quality improvements and no major changes to game mechanics.

MUME is a museum piece maintained by boomers reliving a fantasy of their past. Any _major_ changes would violate their memories of the perfect game that existed however many years ago, and are therefore never going to happen.

Playing MUME in 2021 is essentially like fucking a corpse.

2021/11/22 13:54, Portocale:Rated: Good 
@Ohm: I'm a strong believer that one is responsible for its actions. The limit was pushed by Ohta, when he tried to sun Jinjer, and the backlash is surprisingly mild for such a despicable action. If i remember correctly, in my first mume years, p(Gray) pulled the same crap, and they literally made him quit the game. Here's the link: [submitted link]
"- game allowing such things sort of create opportunities for assholes, which could be reduced if some changes were applied. '
I entirely agree on this, if given the chance, competitive people will exploit any tools at their disposal, legal or illegal, in order to win. There are also the griefers, always present and waiting for opportunities to pick on the weak.
As i mentioned before, any feature that provides entertainment to a player but ruins the game for the others, is a very bad feature, and should be nipped in the bud. (i.e.: sleep spell, morgul blade). I can only hope that the people in charge will understand and act before we loose the little population that's left.

@Fitzcarraldo: Wery well put. Now i know why i enjoy playing mume so much

2021/11/23 10:36, Arcanum:   
There goes 4 years of no comment on gray log...

2021/11/24 15:14, Arcanum:   
... told you it will happen.

2021/11/25 11:41, Ohtacaron: 
Folks It looks like i stirred the spirits here.
What i found really interesting from a social point of view is the urgency for the majority of the audience to label me (Dario) as the worst human being walking on earth for something that happened while playing one of my charachters (to mention some of them rael, winny, derek, laxertu ).
This leads me to think that your life is in playing games nothing more, and i am sorry for you.
I enjoy playing mume and i will keep on doing it.
Keep in mind that maybe ohtacaron will try to sun another troll, while rael will be always helpful as he has always been.
If you want to discuss about Dario instead, well i am Italian , i live in Italy around Milan, so feel free to come to visit me .
I will be happy to explain you ,exacltly, what is the difference between mume (or any other rpg) and the real world.
See you around!

2021/11/26 08:31, Naut: 
There is a difference?

2021/11/27 07:25, Ezmodius:Rated: Good 
No, you can't 'role play' being a character that suns trolls. That doesn't make sense because in the game world dead is dead. There was no difference between a troll dying to the sun or a sword (except one left a statue but no one would purposely want these awful statues around) so no one would have specialised in killing trolls only via the sun. Which means you do it for game mechanic reasons which is literally the opposite of role play.

Coming up with anti-role play reasons for ruining other people's play time and calling it 'role play' makes you the worst kind of player.

2021/11/27 14:33, Ohtacaron: 
@ezmodius that's an interesting point . i will think about it .
this is the most valuable comment i have seen so far.

2021/11/27 16:50, Stoik:   
Ezmodius makes the most accurate statement about death mechanics. In the books or movies, dead is dead. Sun, fire, sword, strangulation... Whatever. In the game world, dead is only temporary. But if you die to sword or spell, you loose maybe 100k exp. Killing a troll by sun is real death. Back to level one. Start all over. If we are going to base game play on book mechanics, dying to a sword should be level one, start all over. There is no valid excuse to purposely sun a player troll. Definitely not a player troll with as many hours and millions of experience as Jinjer has. I've heard people say olog is easy to get. That is true. 25 troll levels are easy, but 70 troll levels is a lot of time spent.

2021/11/30 15:28, Ohtacaron: 
Well i must admit that thanks to the last comments i understood the point, it took some time but better late than never.

Definetly sun death must be tweaked:
for instance massive damage from sun and one level lost if troll dies could be a good compromize to avoid trolls ruling arda.

Peace Jinjer and Bonanza

2021/11/30 18:51, Torkild: 
Rofl...Yeah rp mate. You and Vainamoinen should be a good match. How to hide terrible human behaviour under a rp excuse. Whatever keeps your boat floating.

2021/12/02 09:59, Portocale:Rated: Good 
@Ohtacaron: Your RL sittuation is not an excuse for what you do in game. I'm not sure what sort of horrible childhood trauma you have, or what turned you into such a scumbag and i can only advice that you should seek some psychiatrist's help, if this is indeed the case.
Even now, after you had time to reflect, i see no remorse for what its probably one of the scummiest things one could do in MUME.
Get this through your thick skull once and for all: RP is not a valid excuse to grief people and just because you can do something, does not mean its OK to do it. This is something that most kids learn in their preschool years, nfc how you fail to grasp such basic moral concepts.

2021/12/02 15:52, Ohtacaron: 
You are giving me great moment kids.
super funny.

2021/12/06 09:58, Ezmodius:Rated: Good 
Better late than never, I agree. I'm surprised you never thought of this perspective but, personally, I'm prepared to give the benefit of doubt here, especially since the troll didn't end up eating sun death this time. If there's no forgiveness left in the world sooner or later everyone will hate everyone. I don't speak for anyone else, but from my side (whatever little that's worth) the issue is resolved.... so long as it doesn't ever happen again. :)

2021/12/08 15:41, Portocale:edited 1x  Rated: Good 
@Ezmodius: By your logic, if I chase you with an axe and try to smash in your skull, its all good, as long as I fail to kill you. Afraid it just doesn't work like this, but nice try.

2021/12/10 20:46, Ezmodius:Rated: Good 
He didn't try to smash anyone's skull with an axe. He tried to ruin hours of investment from a player and failed. Anyway, I said I was speaking for me, not for anyone else.


 Superb Ain, Facelift, Foroil, Sompret, Tweet 
 Good Ezmodius, Portocale 
 Awful Eolo, Fitzcarraldo, Jeraziah, Telessar 
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