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Charm commands etc catchup  discussions

2009/12/06 00:33, Crak:   
I'm just looking for help understanding charm and the messages you get if you are just failing charms, or you can't charm that char. Also, how do you know if you can charm more. Like, is it level dependent if you can charm more than one , two , etc? Thanks in advance.

2009/12/06 01:34, Vandersell:edited 1x   
Erm..I just warm it up for the pros to tell you the absolute truth. But how many and at what level depends on your stats, i think willpower has alot to do it, as you have to dominate mentaly the creature. 2 eagles is pretty mutch max you can charm ( eagles are concidered the most powerful charmies couse of the best moves and hit hard ?). Tarantulas do poison with arachnia but their moves suck, 2 is also max at legend level. Maybe at some level 70 and maxmentals you can do 3? Highlevel thief, raging bears, feracious wargs and wraiths can protect/rescue (feel free to add other ones i dont remember and mobs who bash also :))
You cant charm willow etc smobs. Also its hard to charm mobs that acctualy do some brainwork, like humans and such. Stupid animals area the easiest. If you are a combo or with shitty mentals or just low level and having trouble to charming second eagle just charm one, sleep it somewhere, rent, log back, charm some other eagle (it will be registred as your only, first charmie) now its easier to charm second (you slept earlier) one as the sleeping creature has less willpower to fight you back. (how legal is that i dont know btw)
Yeah and someone should make copleate list of charmies that can protect/resc and bash.
You can charm a boar or some brown bear when you are at level 15 or so, but imo charm is not worth it before you can do atleast an eagle. Quakexp your way to that point...

2009/12/06 04:15, Edvard: 
It's just like in RL. Some people can't charm anything (depends on willpower and experience). Some people can charm, but ruins everything when they try command. Sometimes people charm 2, but 2 is alot harder to command than 1, so can end up with 1 of them fleeing. Some people sameside charm, while others find that highly unnatural, and sometimes hunt them for it. Wearing the right gear seems to help charming, especially rings and headgear, but willpower and persistance is perhaps the most important attributes.

2009/12/06 05:30, Breaux: 

2009/12/06 11:26, Belómir: 
It seems like how many, and what, mobs you can charm works somewhat like store. That is all charmies have some sort of value, similar to spellevel for spells when determining how many spells you can store, that is added for all currently charmed mobs/players and when you try to charm a new mob/player a check is made to see if you have the capacity to charm it. Something that doesn't work like store is that when you start to reach your limit of charmed entities it gets harder and harder to charm new ones.
What affects this limit of how much charmies you can have is your level, your willpower, the charmees level and intelligence. Spellattack will help you charm something, but I am not certain if it will allow you to charm more or just reach your limit easier, same as charmees willpower negatively affects your chance of success although it most likely doesn't affect how much charmies you can have.
If you just can't charm a certain mob you will get a message stating that, either if it is because the mob is nocharm or it is too high level for you to charm. If you get the 'Ok.' message but the charmie doesn't start to follow you it may be possible to charm it, but if you already have too many charmies it may not be possible. You get no indication from the game regarding which is the case, you have to fall back on experience to determine that.

I'll make a small list of good/popular charmies and write a word or two about their abilities and why they are useful. I'll also add (after their names, between parenthesis) the max number of them that you can get. Getting the maximum number is rather hard, although it can in most cases be done by a legend level mage with good stats, good eq and using the charm-sleep-rent trick in a good aligned zone. Subtract one from that number and most mages should be able to charm that many and also some combos, subtract two and most combos should be able to manage that.

* mother eagle (3): nice moves, decent defence/hps, good damage, flies (so can 'climb' and 'swim')
* tarantula (4): poisons, ok moves, ok defence/hps, decent damage, can climb
* mountain troll (2): ok moves, good defence/hps, good damage, suffers sundeath, high rescue skill, hard to command
* dark wraith (3): poor moves, decent defence/hps, decent damage, can't be bashed (unless wearing armour on the body or a shield), decent rescue skill
* mountain lion (3?): ok moves, poor defence/hps, ok damage, can bash (does so automatically)
* malevolent bat (6+): good moves, poor defence/hps, weak damage (but you can have a ton of them), flies, easy to command (but with 6 it still takes high command skill)
* powerful lioness (4?): decent moves, ok defence/hps, ok damage, decent rescue

There are many more charmable mobs but either I forgot about them, or they are just plain useless for exping, like butteflies, although 50+ of them are great if you want buffers for killing Willow :)

Some people use their charmies as buffers while exping and some buff themselves and just use the charmies for damage. Either way can work but can require different charmies and different tactics. The first is great if you have blindness and kill harder but solo mobs, you can shoot the blind targets and do very nice damage. The second way is much simpler if you kill groups of weaker enemies, since it will be (almost) impossible to get your charmies to buff all those and most charmies won't stand that long vs several opponents due to a lack of abs.
When it comes to the mountain lions never get more than one of them (goes for all auto-bashing charmies), since they automatically bashes they will all end up trying to bash at times and then none of them will hit and due to lack of parry-split they may very well fail their bashes too. So get one mountain lion as the basher in the group and then fill it up with as many mobs for hit-damage as you can get.

Mother eagles are the clearly most popular mob for exping, much due to its very high convenience factor (they have good moves and flies so they can reach everywhere that isn't underwater) but also due to doing nice damage and being decent buffers. But they can be a little tricky to charm so some go for the much easier tarantulas instead, which still do decent damage and has decent mobility.
I suggest that you find out what sort of group you can get relatively easy and go for that. Trying to charm that last mother eagle for 30 minutes won't do you much good, since your older charmies will un-charm before long and you will just waste a lot of time trying to charm stuff instead of killing stuff. So settle for something less, but still workable, and use that. You should aim for multiple charmies though, since that adds parry-split which in the end most likely means that even if the individual charmies do less damage the group of charmies will do more.

Yikes, this is a huge post :)

2009/12/06 11:54, Berdo: 
Also beware of your (aggressive) charmies attacking other players in cities. That, usually, makes those 'other players' quite annoyed. ;)

2009/12/06 12:51, Ulixes:   
Just for info, malevolent bats have also their auto-wimpy set :P

2009/12/06 14:07, Fein:   
The trick i use when i want to charm multiple highlevel charmies is..
First charm one, a mother eagle for example. Then store a sleep and regen abit while moving toward the next eagle to be charmed. Sleep it, charm it and ungroup your previously charmed eagle. Order it to hit the charmed eagle and order them to flee..
I usually have 2 eagles within 10min using this trick.

2009/12/06 14:13, Belómir: 
If you are making your malevolent bats buff for exp you are either killing level 5 mobs or doing something else wrong :)

2009/12/06 14:32, Crak:   
well I just charmed a grizzly bear and an ox at level 17.... is that like regular, or can I do better?

2009/12/06 17:53, Belómir: 
I usually don't use charm much at such 'low' levels, so I am not certain. However I would guess that it is around as good charmies as you can get. You could try a grizzly bear and an elk or a boar, elks and boars can bash even if they are kind of crappy at it.

2009/12/06 18:59, Razoor: 
That was the best post ever Edvard, thanks for making my day.

2009/12/14 17:47, Yanâkhim:   
Yeah Edvard, what headgear do u wear in RL when ur planning to charm? :D

2009/12/14 17:50, Yanâkhim:   
I should also add for info here, if you fail a charm on your puke mage then its mildly annoying, but spare a thought for the BN mage who backfires a charm spell then gets depression. This lowers your wil for the duration of the depression meaning you cant charm for shit until it wears off =D

2009/12/14 18:15, Mhoghedin: 
In my experience, there is little correlation between depression and charm. I've charmed my second spider with depression on the first try where it took me 4 - 5 tries without depression. The bottom line is that when attempting to charm something its very very random.

Trying to charm a mother eagle (as bn) for example can either be done on the first try or is just simply impossible, it all comes down to the luck of the dice. That and levels! Levels are the key for charming more than anything else.

2009/12/15 17:38, Crak:   
okay perhaps you folks can help me clear this up ... are Vultures charm or nocharm? I keep failing and people keep saying they are and then some say they aren't. Anyone that can give me a definitive answer on that? Thanks!

2009/12/15 22:40, Rik: 
As bn raging bears seem decent buffers, they're non aggro to other darkies, but to pukes. Low level legend bn can charm 1 quite easily. Higher levels with gear seem to be able to charm 2. However the moves of those bears is not that great.

2009/12/16 00:32, Elestir:   
Last time I tried, vultures were charmable, but they are not particulary good charmies. Better go with mother eagles or tarantulas.
Raging bears have perhaps best rescue/protect from all charmies and decent hps, but they have sucky moves and almost no defence. Therefore they are not good for xping. They work for traps though.

2009/12/20 17:27, Wordamouf:  edited 1x   
there is a some ways, how u can make eagles swim!there is nothing to add to Belomirs comment, its all there!

2017/01/19 17:05, Entwistle: 
Pack Leader is good?

2017/01/19 18:17, Elestir:   
@Entwistle Used to be great for both xp and pk, but there are rumours it has been slightly nerfed (no news was posted about it though).

2017/01/19 20:07, Faine: 
Yes. 5 leaders and bashpig and u swim in xp.

2019/10/17 12:15, Osilin: 
How much would the charm usage dynamics change if the change was made that charmed beings could only do what commanded?
That would mean no auto attacking either opposite or friendly race, no bashing, no stealing etc. I would say exping would stay pretty much the same, but PK probably wouldn't.

2019/10/17 14:03, Resin: 
Pk would change a good amount. Not having to worry about your charmies auto hitting 1. in room would be a totally new way of playing. You could have a group of 3 charmers each with their own 2 meagles for a total of 6 meagles and 3 players all following 1 person. Or imagine if they were capable of 3 meagles each for a total of 9 meagles altogether. I can think of other ways pk would change but that's my first immediate concern and would tilt pk towards charmers heavily.

2019/11/09 23:08, Cthulhu: 
I would add that the effort - thoro, careful etc seems to make a big difference. For example it's better to normal charm your first sleeping eagle in Rd and then thoro charm your 2nd and not just thoro charm both. It's seems a stronger charm uses more 'charm points' and you won't have as good a chance to charm the 2nd.. (or 6th if your a puke)

2019/11/10 00:44, Resin: 
Interesting. I've always thought that but don't have a way to confirm it. I'd thoro charm 1. and then try to thoro charm 2. and it'd fail 5-6 times but then I switch to a normal charm (cuz I used all my mana on thoro charms and only have enough for a normal) and its successful on the first try. And thats happened more than once. So that makes sense.

2019/11/12 14:54, Rato: 
And pay attention to the zone align you are charming against your align.
As max good align, you can use inside rd, at gh gate, or close to lorien ferry. And sleep makes mobs ineff to charm.

2019/11/27 22:59, Iminyë: 
charmed beings could only do what commanded?
charmed beings could do much more than, what commanded

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