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The state of the game (returned after 10 years) catchup  discussions

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2017/10/24 14:00, Rashnak:edited 1x   
It wouldn't kill my gaming experience, if more casual players (like Lens here described) who only may play hour or two a week, could get some compensation to equalize the playing field.

For example the game could have some algorithm based on average (active) players's online time in relation to his, and give him some option to start with much better EQ when returning from Halls of Mandos.

I don't mean legend eq, but perhaps like full fine metal set for hero/legend warrior, or something equal for caster. And enough gold to buy a weapon of choice and rent a week or so. Or maybe just the gold. Newbies and low levels could get much cheaper rent, etc.

Also rent costs could be further adjusted to not only consider value of your eq, but also how frequently you play.

More active players wouldn't get such treatments, as they can be expected to be able to spend their time acquiring items and gold.

Such system would allow casual players to contribute to the game when they can, without having to find time to invest in it - even if just by going out, getting killed, and quitting for another week.



2017/10/24 15:12, Algroth: 
That's a good idea for the more 'casual' player for sure. Especially these days with such a reduced playerbase, it's a lot harder for warriors to log in completely naked and be pk/xp/smob ready right away. I can already hear the arguments about OH YOU CAN PK IN LEATHERS blah blah blah but lets be realistic. There's not a lot of people logging in with the intention of either pking or smobbing completely naked, because the support isn't there from whoever is currently logged, and lately with the number of solo and independant chars running around the only ones who have a chance of surviving are the ones who are reasonably setted.

What about re introducing receipts? It might help the more hack and slash players who log in for 45 minutes at a time to equipped quickly, instead of spending hours just to reeq.

2017/10/24 17:02, Lens:   
Or just make non-legend eq stay with your character, tall orc spawns with a decent set everytime but people kill players trying to level up and take the basics, including chanted weapons, to sell (even though they can't) for rent cash for that 160 lb. full set. Also maybe let players customize these common pieces a bit for gold, e.g. engraving, fluting, embedding, polishing, painting etc. If they are going to be part of the character.

Economically speaking rent, repair and looting are there to prevent inflation but I don't know if it is working that well considering how well the game is solved. Maybe get rid of rent and have a credit system where your rent time is determined by killing enemies (mobs and players) and turning items into the armoury/store which can then be supplied to players/mobs. In lotr armour and weapons were most often gifts or found. Also with such a system it might be an idea to consider capping the amount of certain items in the game and having decay like there is with artifacts. This would upset some people but it isn't very Tolkien for so much shinning to be everywhere. So for example maybe there are a total of 30 ornate hammers which can be in the game and that decay in one rl month (one per day) This would add actual deflation but also creates other issues.

2017/10/24 17:26, Aranaeth: 
People will find some way to abuse it, the non legend eq bit. Also maybe i have spent too much time with mume over these years, i just dont see the need to newbie kit or 'suicide kit' people with lets say full fine metals and chanted weapon of choice.

Come on there are very few situations where such system would be called for.

Maybe use something more circumspect, indirect. For example there already are things any player can pick up/reveal and sell(roots random eq spawning certain places etc). Add some upon already existing system. Gold or what it can buy is not really a problem(for pukes at least), darkies ofcourse have much slimmer pickings.

As for money sink and economy in general, its close to nonexistant in mume, always has been. Not on comparable level of how much is generated at least. There is no meaningful crafting or economy here, which is kind of sad, it could potentially add whole new layer.

2017/10/24 23:05, Lens:   
I agree somewhat that it is easy to get gold, as a pure scout I made the gold for a legend home, 1500 or so, solo in 7 or 8 hours (which is actually quite slow compared to some classes/groups). However on the other hand as pure orc war solo getting an ok weapon and worn out metal set could take 1 to 2 hours depending (if you want to crush it will be a long time). So its like 200 gold per hour vs 20.

My preference is for the game to be so that the risk reward is balanced, right now I feel that it is or isn't depending on who you pk against, what class you are playing, what side of the war and the type of people you run across. Sometimes in a quick fight you lose nothing, sometimes you instantly lose hours and hours of time, sometimes this is because people are nice and sometimes because they need something you got and sometimes because they are assholes. Being an asshole should be a role play option not a game play choice that makes the most economic sense.

The gear stuff isn't the main issue I have with playing, I think the main issue is the time sink. If we could just get a decent population 2 days a month for 4 hours, I think people would show up. Or maybe a mume league one or two nights a week with some kind of bonus or rule set to keep things enjoyable. Like in a normal sports league for adults you practice a bit and show up in play for a few hours. In mume it really isn't that easy.

2017/10/25 00:33, Rashnak: 
Aranaeth: 'i just dont see the need to newbie kit or 'suicide kit' people with lets say full fine metals and chanted weapon of choice. '

Suicide kit or not, it would only be available for the really casual players who don't log in every day or even every week, and when they do it would only be for hour or two.

Now would you rather have them not log in at all? Even if this would promote suicidal tendencies, wouldn't that be just what PK in the game needs - more players taking more risks? You may not find it from lot of the active players (including me), but you could find it from the casual players.


2017/10/28 03:22, Zorts:edited 1x   
Solution those suicide kits are with NO SELL and MELT DROP flags. That means creating equipment with new name or old give same stats as sturdy metal or what ever is the worse metal in game. For casters mails with sturdy mail stats with same flags. Tricky part is weapons Either create new weapons with bit worse damage than chanted heavy start/two-handed sword but better ob with no sell and melt drop flags so people still would go look for chanter but also you can go into action or start collecting gold for fine metals etc. Or put chanted heavy star/two-handed sword/bastard sword? into kits with those two flags. That eliminates the abuse of that gear. Also you can request 2 kits per irl day, can change that number bigger but for casual player that's plenty all ready.
You gonna say 'oh this is so much work blah-blah-blah'. Well creating new zones so you can log mortal to xp it in peace is certain deathblow to game itself.
I don't want to disrespect of course that hard work whats put into creating new zones but you have to ask your selves whats the point if there are only handful players left.

This is just rough suggestion, no point to start writing details but gives the idea of this suggestion. If this suggestion is good enough and goes into work or is considered then can always lay out details how, what, when and why.

2017/10/28 08:59, Rashnak: 
Zorts: 'suicide kits are with NO SELL and MELT DROP flags.'

I don't see much abuse happening, if said 'suicide kits' would be only available to players who log in at max once every RL day (on any character), possibly even more infrequently.

Therefore I don't see any need for mechanism to protect from abuse.

These kits should be good enough to allow such characters to get straight into action (whether PK, XP or smobs), instead of investing 1-2 hours to get a basic set (remember that we are talking of a 'dead game' where nobody else would help you) and then (or already in the process) dying with it and becoming frustrated.

What it could achieve, is to make that player to start logging in more often, and then the game would stop offering the suicide kit to him.

For how good such kit should be, I'm thinking something that a warrior can use to solo Old Wight more or less easily, or a caster to (carefully) venture into Moria to hunt packrats, or something equivalent.

2017/10/28 12:30, Zorts: 
My post isn't reply to your post it's over all reply to original post.
And Kits only available to players who log once per day.. wtf is this crap!? So you promote only those who have spent at least one day doing time sink stuff? What about those who after long period of time wanna log their favorite char but it's naked?! My suggestion is more player friendly, promotes more action and can't abuse by game mechanics cause you still need to work to get ur lgend eq and stuff and wont break economy of game also.

2017/10/28 14:21, Rashnak: 
Zorts: 'What about those who after long period of time wanna log their favorite char but it's naked?'

Obviously it's not really their favourite character, if they haven't played it for a long period of time.

The original problem to be fixed with this kind of 'suicide kit' was to help those players who play nothing for several days.

If you have the luxury of investing several hours a day to the game, but you choose to not play your favourite character, then it is your own time management problem.


2017/10/28 17:22, Ugurz: 
I would like to see one simple change made to rent. Nobody should ever lose equipment to rent-cost. Change the system so that when you reach zero-gold you are simply broke ... but you still own your gear, and you can still rent. This maintains the system that was designed to try and limit player gold-reserves and removes the fear of losing equipment to rent for occasional players.

2017/10/28 18:04, Naga: 
So how would you stop people from just banking loot?

2017/10/28 20:14, Fret:   
Yes bc banking loot will be the downfall of Mume. If anything it will help to re-eq old players who come back naked from losing eq to insane rent cost. I would rather see a set room rate. Your renting a room, I donít think the inn keeper really cares what gear I drop on the floor in my room before I sleep.

Whatís more important, keeping an active player base, or having people who take the time to smob for eq pay large amounts of gold to rent?

Anyone in management willing to take a stab at answering my previous scout question?

2017/10/29 01:24, Agarwen:edited 1x   
I haven't logged on in like 2 years because I fucked up (twice) and forgot to log in to get rent money. The prospect of having to re-eq a full set that I already have makes it not worth the effort to play.

I'd probably play some if I could actually play for a few hours and actually have fun. As it stands, I'll spend too much time re-eqing, spend hours looking for anybody to actually fight, die to something stupid, and end up back at square one having had next to no actual fun. Pass.

2017/10/29 09:59, Aranaeth: 
Naga, carry weight and no recipes, combined with possible death during the play. And all the usual banking/char separation rules would still apply.

That tiny amount of gear not eaten by rent cost, is not going to affect economy, which arguably hasnt existed in mume for quite a while at least anyway.

I dont think it would have huge impact, but it would surely help.

2017/10/29 14:15, Elestir:   
@Agarwen Re-eq is only problem, because of low active playerbase. Once we fix that problem and motivate equipped players to play (by making their gameplay fun in some way), we fix also problem with difficult re-eq.

I haven't been playing MUME much lately for example, despite most of my chars being full-setted, and many of them even having lots of spares. Why? Because there is nearly nothing fun to do anymore. Not enough targets to PK and rest of MUME is too static and repetitive. Now I admit that the main reason for me not playing is not enough time because of RL issues, but I still relax by playing some games now and then, but lately I just simply choose other games (even if singleplayer), because they provide more dynamism (are less repetitive for me) than MUME. And that is a shame, because MUME being mmorpg has a potential to be much more fun than all those games. Unfortuntely, it just isn't atm.

2017/10/30 16:53, Algroth: 
I'm going to agree to disagree Elestir. There are a lot of options and challenges on MUME, but I suppose those challenges lessen the more levels and eq you have :) I don't have an excess of either, on any chars, so maybe that's why i still log on :p

But i do miss the player numbers.. even just trolling narrates or hanging out with new people, depending on my mood :P the more the merrier, I say.

2017/10/30 16:53, Algroth: 
I'm going to agree to disagree Elestir. There are a lot of options and challenges on MUME, but I suppose those challenges lessen the more levels and eq you have :) I don't have an excess of either, on any chars, so maybe that's why i still log on :p

But i do miss the player numbers.. even just trolling narrates or hanging out with new people, depending on my mood :P the more the merrier, I say.

2017/10/30 21:05, Elestir:   
@Algroth You are welcome to disagree, but it would be more constructive if you actually provided some arguments, i.e. examples of what in MUME (when the playerbase is very low) is still challenging and more fun than playing random offline game for you.

2017/10/31 09:53, Algroth: 
Sure Elestir, i'll try.

Well as mentioned it's always more challenging to do things when you're not max eq'd. Some examples of things that I like to do are gold runs, quest runs, (mana cups, etc..) just last week I did elven bag and rope quest for the first time. I realize it's not a huge accomplishment but there are a lot of quests which take a lot of time when they have not been done before. Maybe i'm lazy :)

I guess the quicker you charge through everything that's brought out right away then the quicker it loses its excitement. Not sure what is still new for you (probably not a hell of a lot) but it's probably subjective to each individual. Not putting that down but leaders like you like to stay ahead of the game i'm sure.

2017/10/31 12:07, Rashnak: 
@Algroth: Gotta agree with you.

I probably have more or less the same mileage on MUME as Elestir, but I still find enjoyment in the oddest things - such as TPing(!) a newbie(!) to level(!) for some arbitrary purpose that he will likely never(!) grow to need.

Or collecting herbs and scavening loot in the process, with the prospect of being able to buy good gear at low level without anyone donating anything.

I was a group player once but those days are gone, like tears in rain...

2017/10/31 12:56, Elestir:   
@Algroth With your logic, it should be most fun to complete some MUME quest which you never completed before while being naked, hungry, thirsty and exhausted without using any eq, food or water. That surely will take lot of time (and by your logic will therefore provide lot of fun).

@Rashnak And you believe MUME is the best game to spend time when you aren't interested in group play and enjoy stuff like TPing and levelling new chars in general? Don't you think there are far better singleplayer games that let you do these things at much greater variety and even with graphics?

2017/10/31 13:43, Rashnak: 
@Elestir:

I guess the thing is that MUME is a multiplayer game (despite not having that many players), and there is always a remote chance of being engaged in multiplayer event whether you wanted or not.

Besides, when I mentioned that I often level new characters 'for some arbitrary purpose that he will likely never(!) grow to need', that is often for something that includes multiplayer events.

Not infrequently something to experiment in PK, even if I never have been much of a PKer and considering the argued challenges to find PK even if I was.

Certainly there would be other games (both single and multiplayer), but beyond MUME and a more casual mobile game, I don't characterize myself as much of a gamer.

I'm sure that if MUME somehow disappeared from the picture, I would find another (multiplayer) game. But just for purpose of new challenges I'm pretty set with that in RL for years to come, so perhaps for me MUME, as a game that I know pretty well and have played all these years, provides some continuity and safety to hold on to.


2017/10/31 17:47, Algroth: 
I appreciate Rashnak's gameplay helping people. Guess not everyone has the same playstyle. You prob have played longer (HI HOLYELF) but you have gotten in a higher rank :) I wonder why.

2017/11/04 13:28, Antti: 
Something that may help with forgotten retirements:

News 2506 : Easier returns to MUME with retroactive retirements (Waba)
Written on Sun Jul 24 09:58:21 2016

Characters who have been inactive for a year will be automatically and
retroactively retired. In other words, we'll pretend that they anticipated
their time away from MUME and properly retired instead of renting.

This will give returning players the benefits of retirement (reroll, agereset)
to jump back into the game, instead of an enormous rentcost and a desperate
need for a FoY group.

The players will be charged:
- 1 year of rent if they were properly rented.
- Free rent if they had only very minimal equipment (like pants and a torch),
even if they did not rent properly.

Characters who cannot afford that rent or who are not in one of these
situations (eg. they zapped link with actual equipment) will not be
considered for retroactive retirement.

2017/11/06 02:18, Rashnaj: 
Good change!

2017/11/06 04:53, Zorts:edited 2x   
Rashnak:
Obviously it's not really their favourite character, if they haven't played it for a long period of time.

You realize people take breaks from game?

Edit:

I also agree with Elestir this game is full of repetetive things with low playerbase. Log in see if you get anyone to group with you, atleast on darkie side it's way harder than on puke, and start ur xp rotation. If certain number of players gained value strength of this group and decide what you can kill with it. For example you can roam 3-5 hours straight as troll and see 0 pukes. There is no challenge left xping lvl 100 char isn't challenge it's how long you can grind before you get bored doing same thing over and over again.

2017/11/06 09:15, Rashnak: 
Zorts: 'You realize people take breaks from game? '

Well now it seems that you totally didn't understand my proposal.

What I proposed is, that if a player (PLAYER, not a character) returns to game after extended break (like a week or more), he would receive a better kit (which some referred to as suicide kit).

'What about those who after long period of time wanna log their favorite char but it's naked?!'

That (your original argumentation) seemed to describe a scenario where someone does play the game actively, but just chooses to not play his favourite character. Obviously in such case it is the player's own choice to neglect the favourite character, and the game should not compensate for that choice.

If someone logs in after long break from the game, he would get the 'suicide kit', which was the whole point of my proposal. But somehow you turned that around, as if you would not get it if you log in naked after long break?



2017/11/06 12:46, Zorts: 
'What about those who after long period of time wanna log their favorite char but it's naked?!'

That (your original argumentation) seemed to describe a scenario where someone does play the game actively, but just chooses to not play his favourite character. Obviously in such case it is the player's own choice to neglect the favourite character, and the game should not compensate for that choice.


Ok seriously just 1 question. Can you read? How the heck is 'long period of time' in your book someone 'who does play actively'!?!?!?!?

I mean like long period of time like year or two or five years! Do you understand now after so long time? Or do I have to explain more so you maybe can grasp it?

2017/11/06 14:39, Ares: 
I wondered when the finger pointing and name calling starts ...

But seriously, do you all think, that MUME needs no changes to core functions? I sumise that from all the suggestions that focus on just adding some extra tidbits to the game.

2017/11/07 09:34, Rashnak: 
Zorts, here is what I originally wrote:

'said 'suicide kits' would be only available to players who log in at max once every RL day (on any character), possibly even more infrequently.'

Your response was this:

'And Kits only available to players who log once per day.. wtf is this crap!?'

From that comment I gathered that you reacted, because you'd log in more frequently (therefore being active imho), and wouldn't get this kit?

Did you perhaps read 'max' as 'min' ?

Note that my proposal specifically tries to help players who log in more rarely than once a day, including those who return naked after long inactivity.

But now you say that your concern is players who are really inactive and return after months or years, right?

I don't see how that would make my suggestion crap - that type of players are one of the two main targets for this proposal (the other is those who can only afford to play a little time once a week or so).


2017/11/07 16:27, Zorts: 
My original post was referred to whole concept of this subject (have to explain again). Have high chance to get more left players back, how to avoid eq banking, how to to be equal to all to active and non active players and keep economy intact. That all was in 1 post. If you ppl wanna rant over pointless stuff then go ahead. I understand ur bored and look in forums for something to chew but seriously don't overthink.

2017/11/07 17:10, One:   
If getting eq is a problem then I suggest making more load spots for basics, especially around noc. Last few times I logged on my orc I was the only darkie on.

Wraith in orc camp could load fine metal plate and dark broad.
Put a skeleton in vellum with some fine mail or plain metal.
Make chest with coins have some value to them.
Simple changes that can help the lonely player earn cash and get eqed.

What i would love to see is an enchant scroll, or a mob you can pay for an enchant. Or maybe something like FOY with a pool you dip to enchant a weapon, but the pool has a refresh time of 2h, so you cant spam enchant arrows.

2017/11/07 18:35, Pilois:   
I really like those ideas, One, and I hope they get implemented. One issue though is returning players will probably be unaware of their existence. It already a pain to get a recently updated map(which is close to required since almost everyone else uses one). I think more information resources available would help about as much as anything.

2017/11/07 18:58, Barret:   
An enchant scroll would rock. Especially for zaugs. Or maybe Sauruman could offer a chant on the spot instead of giving you a note if you are wielding a chantable weapon when you give him something nice.

I think it might also be interesting if killing certain mobs with an unchanted weapon enchanted them automatically. I feel like that would be tolkienish. If you slay the great goblin, then your sword becomes a relic of power because it slew the great goblin. It could also encourage grouping and induce players to kill mobs they would otherwise ignore. If killing Crusher, Bulgotha, or Brolg enchanted puke weapons, you might find some people willing to go out of their way to kill them. I'm not sure what mobs would be included on the list but they could be chosen to encourage grouping, to give fighters or scouts an incentive to kill things they otherwise would not, or to drive players into dangerous areas to make the war more fun.

Of course, such a system would make the enchant spell less useful. But very few BNs seem to have it anyway these days and even pukes can have trouble finding a willing chanter. I think it would be a worthwhile change.

2017/11/07 20:07, One:  edited 2x   
Oh I forgot about lockable exits. Sure orc camp rock being pickable isnít realistic, but it provided more pk. Sometimes gameplay is more important then how realistic it is. It would be better to change the door name if it bothers someone that much. Or make it a delayed door. I find pking around noc is so boring bc of lack of closable that a non caster can keep someone in.

2017/11/07 21:36, Naga: 
Simple changes are great, often very easy to implement. Those are appreciated.

2017/11/09 14:13, Rashnak: 
Zorts: 'My original post was referred to whole concept of this subject'

Your original input was this:

'Solution those suicide kits are with NO SELL and MELT DROP flags.'

In my opinion, such kits implemented in the way I have proposed would not be abusable, because they would only be available to really casual players - someone who logs in not more than once in RL day, perhaps even more rarely.

They could not possibly inflate the game, unless we had so many of such players that we couldn't really call MUME a dead game anymore, and we could remove the whole feature then.

'seriously don't overthink.'

You can call it overthinking or whatever, but little bit of thinking would help you realize that you don't need to implement any special flags for these items, or copy entire classes of EQ into special versions. In this case, if there was real overthinking, it was in your version.


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