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Message 2561 : Update on Embedding and Staves (Rogon) catchup  discussions

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2019/05/15 22:15, Fieldy:  edited 1x   
New info I guess - sage gives tiger's eye for an artifact. Don't know the manaregen bonus for BN yet with that.

Edit: btw, have I missed something. BNs can't put in one major gem and one minor gem and chunk/hsb/bar in rough staff or this is a wrong rumor?

2019/05/16 07:36, Rogon:   
There is no special rule for BNs, there is only two types of staves: focus or not focus.

Staves also have to be enchanted for gems to be embeddable.

2019/05/16 09:52, Fieldy:   
So a nonfocus staff can have also major, minor and chunk/hsb/bar in it?

2019/05/16 10:03, Rogon:   
A focus staff can have 2 major gems.
A non-focus staff can have 1 major gem.
A staff can only have 1 use gem.
A non-enchanted staff can't have gems.

That's it.

2019/05/16 10:59, Antti: 
In addition to gems, and/or instead of gems, you can add chunk/bar/hsb to free slots of your staff. And that's it.

2019/05/16 11:46, Lyr:   
And I would assume metals can be embedded into non-enchanted staves still?

2019/05/16 15:52, Elestir:   
Fieldy wrote: New info I guess - sage gives tiger's eye for an artifact.

Doh, so now even worm hide chance is lowered because of this useless thing. And I assume orcs and trolls can get it too, even though it's absolutely worthless for them as they don't enchant...
Would have been better if they simply replaced the opal in MA chest with tiger's eye and left sage untouched IMHO.

2019/05/16 16:36, Fieldy:   
True. When I got it, I had no idea what to do with it. Fortunately one BN was actually interested in using it.
But as written before - BNs have to pick between +10 attack or something else. Yeah, difficult not to pick +10 attack : (

2019/05/16 18:00, Ryalnos:   
Fieldy, as what race did you receive that gem?

2019/05/16 18:03, Fieldy:   

2019/05/16 18:27, Melerin:   
> Staves also have to be enchanted for gems to be embeddable.

Rogon, I don't believe this was always true; I remember embedding items in a staff as a lowbie before I could learn enchant, just last year.

2019/05/16 22:11, Elestir:   
@Melerin But even in past, if you embeded gem in staff, it wouldn't give any bonus until you enchanted the staff. Now they changed it so you can't even embed gems until the staff is enchanted...

2019/05/17 08:36, Embarassedpuppy: 
Bear with me, but: The requirement, that a staff has to be enchanted by its owner, is this valid only for to-be-focused staves, or is this valid for any to-be-embedded-into staves?

2019/05/17 09:36, Rashnak: 
All and any staves that want to take advantage of one or more gems.

2019/05/17 09:49, Embarassedpuppy: 
So there mostly used term 'enchanted' is in truth 'enchanted by its owner'.

Thanks, Rashnak!

ps: 'Embarassedpuppy' of course, because even after decades I still don't know this ...

2019/05/17 19:32, Fieldy:   
Wait. I chanted a staff for a troll to put things in it and he is using it. No gems though of course.

2019/05/17 23:18, Rashnak: 
Metal embeds (for PB) are not gems, and as such do not require enchant to take effect - or to embed, afaik.

2019/05/21 16:44, Ena:  edited 3x   
Amber gem produces a golden shield to absorb spell damage. You also get a mana boost equivalent to the normal cost of the attack spell used. The cool down time varies on how powerful the attack spell is, measured 6min for burning hands, 8 min for lightning bolt and 10min for fireball.

2019/05/22 03:17, Lyr:   
Confirmed. They call me target practice.

2019/05/22 09:41, Singleton: 
Being the smartass that I am: 'practice target'

Thanks for retrieving the info and suffering for it!

2019/05/22 15:50, Ena:   
I neglected to try spells like sleep, blind and fear. The gem did not stop quake damage.

2019/05/22 20:51, Lyr:   
They also call me Jamie and Cersi.

2019/05/23 06:22, Rashnak: 
In the current charmie infested environment, perhaps some item that could be used to temporarily reduce (if not remove) command skill of your enemy/enemies.

Or even something that reverses the target of charmie commands, so whatever your opponent orders charmie to do on your person, would target that opponent instead.

2019/05/23 12:33, Rogon:   
Rashnak, I like that your idea atleast is aimed towards balance. Most ideas I see is 'I like X, X is good! Let's make X better.'

2019/05/23 13:48, IminyŽ: 
Rashnak, 2nd option is called magic blast

2019/05/23 13:53, Singleton: 
You might see 'silence' as option vs command, too.

2019/05/23 16:49, Lozen: 
@rashnak Obsidian eye and black candles are 2 itens that work well against charmies (charmies seem to all have terrible willpower)

2019/05/23 17:25, Rashnak: 
What I was thinking of though, was something that you could put up beforehand and then it would last as temporary effect for a minute or whatever.

2019/05/31 14:44, Lozen: 
Has anyone found out if sqt wristband and rubellite stack for +20 mana?

2019/06/03 13:04, Nilin: 
Yes they do. My ages old halfelf priest had 170 mana before I foyed him. Wristband adds 10 and rubellite adds another 11.

2019/06/03 16:36, Lozen: 
Lol wow 170 mana. Thatd be great to have. Thank you for informing me. Appreciate it. Been wondering for a while now if they stacked or not. Would be cool to see a bn get ahold of sqt wristband and rubellite (if bns can use rubellite) so they'll have mana comparable to a puke mages

2019/06/03 18:42, Sarkazein:   
Is 1 normal bolt worth of extra mana worth not having spell attack? I personally don't think it is, but I haven't really tested damage with and without +1 attack. I might do that later today, actually.

2019/06/03 19:10, Lozen:edited 1x   
Could be. I havent tested bn spell damage with or without a +attack item so i have 0 idea how much extra damage a +attack item gives. They can still get +2 attack with copper+crown so it really depends on how much a +1 actually gives

Edit: my bn has 101 max mana when he gets depression so an extra 21 mana would be useful. At least it makes him somewhat playable when depressed. His will is still cheap but at least he can cast more then 3 spells before being frozen. Would help if recovering my corpse is difficult

2019/06/03 21:56, Elestir:   
Not getting spellattack eq on BN also increases backfire rate (and thus depression rate), so most of these gems (which were added for more variety) simply aren't worth it. The management just made sure no1 gets more powerful, but sadly the alternatives aren't even on par with current spellattack variant, so whoever goes for this variety will inevitably end up weaker.

2019/06/04 11:54, Lozen: 
+spell attack decreases chance for depression? Did not know that. That changes things. Maybe the new staff I was hoping to try out for bn isn't worth it then. Back to the regular opal/hsb/chunk

2019/06/05 10:12, Chark: 
Yeah, I think Elestir is saying that +1 spell attack decreases chances to backfire your spells, so in effect it reduces your chances to get depression.

2019/06/27 17:00, Jahara:   
I have updated the MUME wiki with information from this thread:

[submitted link]

2019/07/04 12:41, Djinn:edited 2x   
Here's my 2 cents, a little late into the discussion, but better late than never, right?

In essence, what I would like to see, is a rework of the gems, similar to what Elestir proposed, but with a stronger effect on gameplay. What I do not like (and I know this is very personal, but I feel that changing it would be beneficial to a lot of frustration people have with casters) is the following:
- I do not like the blinds/sleeps/charms of the MUME world being as strong as they are.
- I do not like the ridiculous burst output of some of the spells.
- I do not like how stupid it feels to fight a melee user as a spellcaster in a closed area, where you either use charmies, quake in advance (that's a skillful gameplay element I don't necessarily dislike either), or spam +4 attack quickspells (bah!).

What I would like to see is:
- The complete removal of attack power gems from the game (gasp!).
- Gems that increase the way a caster can use armour, shield or any protective spells (possibly excluding sanctuary), so they can bulk up against melee aggression, and not completely drain their manapool doing so, resulting in longer, more controlled fights, contrary to the 'ohshit' moments we have on both sides where a spell connects, or the armour spell drops.
- A gem that makes the mental spells (maybe not even all of them combined!), like the ones mentioned above, be more effective, so you can choose that direction too, if you want to go there.

The idea I have behind these proposed changes, is that a character using a staff would be a very clear indication that this character is an active spell user. Promoting engagement on both sides of the war, by lowering the wizkill potential and removing the necessity to run around with 2 charmies or L70 max protect dwarf to hide behind, would be ideal too, when game population is not as high as it used to be.

As a small sidenote at the end, I do not aim to completely turn the game around with these propositions. Spells should still hit hard, they should not turn into a flavourful way of hitting your opponent with a weapon. I heavily promote class diversity. I would also like to see more ways of specializing your caster, so we don't all have to keep running around with 2 eagles/spiders.

2019/07/04 14:09, Rashnak: 

I am partial to agree with you, although mostly from the perspective of having slow and unstable link (not to mention being slow in person) and as such being handicapped in most fights these days.

I believe removing much of the elements that require fast reaction times, spamming with fast link, and/or client programming would make PK more enjoyable for larger audience. I would prefer more tactical elements that don't depend on such.

However, other part of me thinks that magic (or combat in general) related to PK should not become very different from that against NPCs, and I wouldn't like to see killing mobs become equally harder or slower. Though I may be biased on this.

By this I mean, if (for example) offensive and mental spell powers are drastically reduced, it also affects exping/smobbing, and balancing that with small playerbase and some players aways being more resourceful in coping with that could be a hell for game management.

In the end it could just more hurt the players that I consider need most help.

Also I'd remind that for example store spells in modern mume are much slower than back in day when they were really instant. Or consider other old wizkill features like hold, bash+backstab, charge, or Norsu smiting packs.

It's not perfect, but in many ways it's better than it was in past.

One simple (though maybe unpopular) solution with power gems could be to create more incentives for darkies to loot and destroy puke staves - or even having most powerful staves automatically destroy when owner dies in PK (or at all). Valar may simply prefer to do that, rather than risk them getting to enemy hands.

2019/07/04 14:38, Aganir:   
Honestly, more important than that is the fact that these new changes are almost exclusively to boost already high-tier races, without considering the other side. My bn has less int, less wis, and significantly less pracs. Why give additional plus mana regen, or max mana, to things that don't need it?

2019/07/04 14:38, Djinn: 
I don't have to to muse more about this right now, but if you included the gem that gave +attack to mental spells, for example, you could technically tune it to be in line with what you currently have, at the cost of the rest of your spells. If you really wanted to be a blindbot, you could be.

2019/07/04 14:39, Djinn:edited 1x   
Double post.

2019/07/04 14:47, Aganir:  edited 1x   
Also double post

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