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Poll: Give Orcs Block catchup  discussions


2019/11/12 01:01, Bouncingbetty: 
The world grows larger... Due to Mmapper no one gets lost anymore. The time has come to instead of fighting the change, embrace it and provide counterplay.

-There are MANY very cool an interesting ideas for limiting mobility during PK in game, but as we're all aware changes can be slow... especially large and complicated ones. Orcs current options for forcing are as follows: Picking someone in pickable closable and spamming them down. Most exits are not pickable, and spamming people down has a VERY low success rate due to not getting lost thanks to mmapper and many movement buffs. By FAR the easiest solve to this problem: Allow orcs to practice Block.

-TL;DR Orcs cannot force fights, they can only hope the enemy miscalculates. Should Orcs finally get block?

-Your Thoughts?
Thoughts?

2019/11/12 01:46, Zintilden:   
lol plz!

Why would you want to put those BN-palz of yours out of business? :)

I do agree mobility is a problem, but each side has this and their own 'perks' for making it a problem IMO.

Killing people that are 'lost' sounds boring, so I would counter you with: Mmapper makes getting kills more challenging, and yes...harder to accomplish.

2019/11/12 05:18, Shaukr: 
I don't mind the idea of keeping some degrees of separation in the abilities available to Orcs and BNs, it gives character to the races in a way that whiteside doesn't have. On the other hand, I agree with where you're coming from: some more options to force fights might be cool.

I'd be interested in seeing poison and black breath improved to make them better anti-mobility spells. In a game of mobility buffs, some mobility maluses and ways to strike at moves could have a place.

2019/11/12 07:43, Soilwork: 
I would argue for orc-shamans to get some form of thorns spell, perhaps a form of 'block-light' can only be cast on natural exits that are otherwise not affected by block, such as bushes, branches etc. Perhaps instead of a full block it could be a delayed open action,perhaps even with some light damage, in the same way as brush thorns among others.

2019/11/12 08:15, One:  edited 1x   
More delay doors that drain moves when you open or close them. Orc camp rock would be a nice delayed exit, or just make it a pickable kind of door again. I would prefer if instead of making the door no pick because itís not realistic, just change the door.

I donít think orcs should get block

2019/11/12 10:55, Jenzn:   
How about implementing some sort of rare block scroll?

2019/11/12 12:53, Zintilden:  edited 1x   
Shaman spells need to be revamped and made playable/powerful indeed, especially for those Shaman's that are high level. I think poisons are fine, but we could use one specifically to drop potions or an item that works instantly like powder does but to remove any 'potion' effect on a target (not area). Mainly targeting: walking/healing/traveling/draught potion up. I didn't realize how truly OP some of the puke herblore is until recently. :P

I would prefer more key exits myself, but I would also settle for latch, delayed or otherwise exits. The problem is that even if you can contain people better, there are still many that wont enter those areas anyhow when certain people are on IMO. Just like instead of carrying a bottle/antidote kit ready, people are lazy and just stay away from the two orc groups around that utilize poison, and instead they sit around whining about poisons! :P (BTW, do you know how long it takes to keep stocked up on poison for a group? It is someone's time collecting all that shit to be able to use it endlessly, easier to collect some herbs for antidote.)

2019/11/12 14:23, Welder:   
I disagree. Please don't give block to orcs. I like how the current system encourages grouping where orcs need bns.

2019/11/12 14:39, Rashnak: 
As a concept in its own right, Soilwork's idea above about 'some form of thorns spell' sounds great.


2019/11/12 14:43, Zintilden:   
I missed Soilwork's post somehow, but I ageee, that would be neat and fun. Great idea.

2019/11/12 14:59, Bouncingbetty: 
I absolutely agree Shaman spells could do with a serious rework. Not only for rebalancing sake but also to separate them more from puke mages and clerics. That kind of rework would take a LOT of effort both creating the spells and persuading the gods. That being said...

@welder Yes, I like the concept of orcs needing BNs too, unfortunately due to the number of players on dark side, it's nowadays not nearly as practical as before when you had 20+ people on each side.

@zintilden The ability of orcs to find and kill westerners is a large part of the reason why people play dark side. Evil races already are debuffed and weaker than western races. They shouldn't also not be allowed to force a fight. That's also not very canon as almost always in the books when an orc/troll attack happens there are heavy casualties.

Spell Ideas:

-Buffing black breath is certainly a good option, you'd have to make it more useful than just nuking which currently it is not.

-Someone suggested orcs could create a wall of terror, high mana cost, lots of practices, last 2 minutes, but could be created without an exit. Just a wall.

-Shmans could cast a noxious posion which slows the targets reaction speed or 'link' to 300ms for some seconds. They can move, but slower allowing orcs to chase them down if need be. Would be quite cinematic.

What do ya think?

Any gods care to comment?

2019/11/13 03:22, Bardock:   
NO!

2019/11/15 12:42, Ramsay:edited 4x   
Here's an idea from a long time ago: a new skill needs to be added to the game called 'hold door'. If a door is able to keep people in/out then you should also be able to lean against it to hold it closed. Once someone is 'holding' the door it becomes a strength based delay door. The side trying to open needs to have more strength than the side trying to keep it closed. If the door gets opened, everyone who was trying to hold the door effectively takes a bash as a result of being knocked over.

This way every character would have a kind of block door. 3 orcs could suddenly trap 2 or 3 casters. Trolls would be popular group mates. It would also give more stabbing opportunities since people would often be locked in hold/open delay around the map. I'd rather something cool like that than just giving orcs the block spell.

2019/11/15 12:51, Welder:   
Ramsay, that's a really nice idea in my opinion.

2019/11/15 15:38, Shaukr: 
It would probably need some delay to use the skill that could be interrupted by opening the door, else you give warriors an instant uninterruptable block on any door. I doubt you'd ever really see a contest of strength to open a door since the rest of the holder's group would just hit the openers out of the delay.

I'm also not sure if diminishing specialization between char classes (all chars have pseudoblock) is ideal, which I guess is where we also started with re: orcs and BNs. Still, it's an idea!

2019/11/16 10:04, Ramsay: 
Are you saying the holder would stand outside and the rest would be inside? If so, that's true but the ones trapped inside need only get someone to hit (or stab!) the person holding from the outside. If all are inside then they can just hit the holder to unblock the door.

It would be a skill you have to spend pracs on so not everyone would have room. It could be something like the higher your percentage in 'hold door' the more of your strength can be used. So a BN praccing it to 10% with 13 strength would just be 1 strength applied to the door, for example. This gives the advantage to the openers since they get 100% of their strength.

It would certainly change the dynamic of fights from how they've always worked but it might be different enough to get a lot of people to come back and try it out.

2019/11/16 11:52, Rashnak: 
In principle I frown at thought of needing to practise something like holding a door closed. This could just as well work without pracs, if the fine details can be worked out to not break game further. But I think that alone may be difficult, pracs needed or not.



2019/11/17 18:59, Elestir:   
Rather than block for orcs, I'd prefer to see more features reducing outdoors mobility. One that came to mind just now is non-bandaged deep wounds (or worse) could cause minor damage with every movement forcing the affected character to pause and bind his/her (or mount's) wounds. Another is giving movement delays when low moves or when having wounds on legs/feet. Another one: making movement slower in certain terrains. And yes, black breath should be changed to fast and low mana spell with its power scaled down reasonably, but cumulative (possibility is also to make black breath negate or dispel bob). That way, it could at least have some effect in PK. Poisons should also be somewhat cumulative and not so easily countered by antidote/remove poison (but could require several stacks to work effectively enough).


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