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Covid-19 - time to save the old and planet by playing MUME? catchup  discussions

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2021/11/22 19:10, Facelift:   
Yeah, this is like trying to talk to a mudcrab. Enjoy your little angry fear bubble. I'm done wasting my time trying to reason with a literal imbecile.

2021/11/22 20:25, Ytinas: 
Facelift, af $1 per test that test plan would have broken even with 3 booster shots within 2 months, looking at material costs alone: $20x3 vs $1x60. But the real problem is logistics. Quick search puts total (official) covid tests performed in the US at ~700M tests since the start of the pandemic. On day 3 of a daily testing schedule theyíd have exceeded that number. Try to remember of how difficult it was to source something as simple as a cotton swab in mid 2020. Now increase demand by a factor 100-1000. Then note that the US isnít representative for the world, and that I ignored labor, and youíll see the real numbers are much much worse.

Would be fun to do a more detailed analysis, but weíd need to get some assumptions straight first. First off: how long would this strategy last? Do we start before we are at capacity? Strong or mild lockdown?

2021/11/24 17:12, Arcanum:   
Can anyone explain the 1223 deaths from the documents that wont be released for 55 years?

2021/11/24 22:56, Thurge: 
Tragic masturbation fatalities. We're waiting for everyone they might have known to die or forget they existed to avoid unnecessary embarrassment.

2021/11/25 20:37, Arcanum:   
I dont even know where to start here. What is more interesting

'If you get Covid having been fully vaccinated, according to this UK data, you are five (5) times more likely to die than
if you were not vaccinated!'
'2,620 Dead Babies In VAERS After COVID Shots Ė More Fetal Deaths In 11 Months Than Past 30 Years Following All Vaccines As Scotland Begins Investigation'
'Using the VAERS database and independent rates of anaphylaxis events from a Mass General study, we computed a 41X under-reporting factor for serious adverse events in VAERS, leading
to an estimate of over 150,000 excess deaths caused by the vaccine.'

[submitted link]

people with short attention span can hear what dr jessica rose has on the subject. like 2 mins in fda hearing.

Ytinas i have been planning to do a summary of all my arguments your replies have conveniently forgotten, unfortunately there have been other things to do.

2021/11/26 07:49, Ytinas: 
3x Clickbait for trolls, sheeple and the gullible. And those that are too weak to stand up for their opinion.

They started reporting miscarriages after vaccination. Given that about 1:3 pregnancies end in miscarriage this is so far below statistical relevance that they had to inflate it to dead babies. Many of your friends will have miscarried. Itís a personal tragedy, and something no one deserves to have politicized. Go apologize to all the couples you know. Ass.

Do your own research Arcanum. Donít copy the headline, but read the first page of whatever the actual source is. Donít blindly trust what the media tells you.

2021/11/26 19:02, Arcanum:   
label something with a 'bad' label and it goes away?
it does not work this way, you know. label something and it shows a label is all you got, hence - argument lost.

i did not peek into the first one, other sources said uk official docs show no dif between vaxed and unvaxed. *shrug*

the second one is really simple, actually. there are numbers, there even was a graph and considerable growth in numbers of that kind of 'adverse effect'. i'm sure you could crack it open if you tried. allegedly an investigation started - thats news, no?

but to the third - we talked about vaers data deflated 5 folds. well it seems its 41 folds. relevant for this discussion we had, if you ask me. i managed to reach a relevant paper following the links in my posted link.

i would only mind if someone i actually consider respectful would call me names. calling someone an ass shows somewhat desperation, no? not exactly a strategy to gain named respect.

Actually came here for a reason. To my best knowledge natural immunity is superb. Someone witty wrote 'The only immunity covid vaccines give is the legal immunity for pharmaceutical companies'. As i understand, they may give a lesser immunity effect or might not.
I am really curious about the statement that the best immunity comes from natural immunity + vaccine. I know of no research data nor logical explanation to back this up. Can anyone point it to me, please?

2021/11/26 20:45, Thurge: 
It's under investigation still. Here's an article from Nature discussing it: [submitted link]

2021/11/27 17:24, Arcanum:   
Thank you for the link.

There are 4 possibilities for 'vaccinated' and/or natural immunity:
1. natural; 2. 'vaccinated'; 3. 'vaccinated' after gaining natural immunity; 4. first 'vaccinated', then infected and recovering it.

As far as i understood, the 4. is still studied with no result. The article noted the 1. is better to have than 2. Mostly it was about discussing 2. vs 3. as it suits their 'vaccine' pushing narrative, and admitted 3. is superior to 2.
Conveniently mostly disregarded the 1. vs 3. (but once, hinting 3. is better than 1. for unexplained reasons).

As i understand the test was done in lab and they managed to create something (chimeric spike) that was able to beat some convalescent plasma and some plasma from 'vaccinated' but did not do as good vs the 'hybrid' (3.) plasma and they think this suggests 3. is also better than 1. or 2. in a real virus situation.

Not a proof but at least reasonable logic.

2021/11/27 17:33, Facelift:   
You don't have to be anti-vaxxer to remember that the stuff you're being borderline forced to take still comes from the big profit-driven labs that care little for anything else besides being able to evade responsibility and rake in more money and expand their influence of power.

Remember, government does not care about you. That's the de facto state.
When they do care about you, excessively, it is usually not for your own benefit.

Remember, corporations are not interested in your well-being, they are interested in all of the above. If they suddenly seem to be interested in your well-being, it is simply to extend all of the above. Go read about the literal slavery Nestle is/was involved with recently and then go read their mission and slogan ;)

2021/11/27 22:42, Ytinas: 
Arcanum, that link came with the claim I made. It was the first hit after searching your unsupported claim. If you care to read beyond the first paragraph, you see WHY they try to identify the proteins that trigger this hybrid immunity.
Using your numbers: 1~2 << 3, as measured from infection rates in people and antibody counts. 4 is unknown because of the small sample set (and possibly because a larger fraction of post-vaccine cases is asymptomatic (!)). Now, how could 3>>1, or even 3>1, if natural immunity is almost perfect? Simple answer: it isnít. Easiest explanation: second infections are grossly underreported. Reinfection rates are considered rare, this study measured 0.7% after 90 days ([submitted link]
and are not an easy measurand. But the disease is still young, and reinfections will come. So eventually, with some luck, covid will be like the Spanish flu: here to stay, but less lethal because most people have basic immunity, with flu/covid shots for those at risk. The moral question is how many avoidable deaths you accept to get there.

I identify you as an ass instead of a troll because I figured youíre not as ignorant as you act. Your call whether you try to prove me wrong on that.

Back to the pre-dodge position. I did look in to the fetal death data, itís public. And you clearly, and by your own admission, did not. It takes less than 5 minutes and youíll see that the dead babies are cases like 6 week miscarriages. Yes theyíre studied, because VAERS is studied. Everyone wants to know if there could be a problem with the vaccine (but that doesnít mean there is one). That headline is not a smoking gun, itís a political tool for unscrupulous people.

If that uk story is the same that I found, they fudged the units. It is true that the annual flu deaths were 5x greater than weekly/monthly covid deaths. Please point out where the problem lies here?

Up to 5x under reporting in VAERS is probably a thing, but so is underreporting of covid cases, and to lesser extent covid deaths. That 41x paper is very speculative, effectively conflating correlation with causation. By same reasoning I could Ďthinkí (their words) the covid death toll is 40x higher than it is now (and I donít).
And even if 150k people died, the virus is still more lethal.
Scotland infant deaths article doesnít link deaths to vaccine but the pandemic, such as reduced availability of healthcare, and an uptake in covid cases. Also read carefully what that herald paper actually says about vaccines and pregnant women.

Read your own research. Itís really just 1 extra click.

Axel: sorry for testing the character limit of these comment boxes ;)

Facelift: I completely agree that there is an unprecedented money grab occurring with the vaccines (and testing, and PPE, and stimulus, andÖ), and our governments should (and many will) answer for it, or better yet, resolve it with the respective companies. But that doesnít change facts on efficacy of the vaccine. As I pointed out, alternatives are much more expensive, and arenít any different wrt the money grab methods. So fine, feel righteous all you want, but wear your mask and take your vaccines or youíre no better than those soulless corporations.

2021/11/28 01:29, Arcanum:   
... most importantly - take your vaccines ( [submitted link]
or you do not OBEY. fifu

trolling is so easy, compared to having a meaningful conversation. as is calling names, no?

2021/11/28 06:28, Ytinas: 
Meaningful conversation to me means responding to each other. Something youíve been painstakingly avoiding. Game, set, match.

Thanks (?) for the compliment, but the feelings isnít mutual. And you donít have to OBEY, morality is a choice.

2021/11/29 16:57, Ulvian:   
This is what corruption concretized looks like.

Once in a while you come across a single statistic that tells the story, captures the spirit of an era.

55 years.

A new symbol of the corruption of science and public health.
55 years is when we'll let you see it.

In 55 years we'll let you know enough to potentially, theoretically, maybe know if we've betrayed the public trust.

It took the FDA 108 days to review these same documents for regulatory approval.

From this article in Reuters:

Justice Department lawyers representing the FDA note in court papers that the plaintiffs are seeking a huge amount of vaccine-related material Ė about 329,000 pages.

The plaintiffs, a group of more than 30 professors and scientists from universities including Yale, Harvard, UCLA and Brown, filed suit in September in U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Texas, seeking expedited access to the records. They say that releasing the information could help reassure vaccine skeptics that the shot is indeed ďsafe and effective and, thus, increase confidence in the Pfizer vaccine.Ē

But the FDA canít simply turn the documents over wholesale. The records must be reviewed to redact ďconfidential business and trade secret information of Pfizer or BioNTech and personal privacy information of patients who participated in clinical trials,Ē wrote DOJ lawyers in a joint status report filed Monday.

The FDA proposes releasing 500 pages per month on a rolling basis, noting that the branch that would handle the review has only 10 employees and is currently processing about 400 other FOIA requests.

[submitted link]

2021/11/30 20:06, Arcanum:   
Dr Andreas Noack, the man who was raided by polizei a year ago is dead after publishing a video where he claims Micro-Raman Spectroscopy shows there is graphene hydroxide in the vaccines. [submitted link]

2021/12/01 07:15, Ytinas: 
Arcanum, they raided him because of his time travel technology, not the vaccines:
[submitted link]
(They didnít actually raid HIM, but thatís another story.)

2021/12/01 07:21, Ytinas: 
@Ulvian: this is why itís important that some government institutions need adequate funding. And why itís preposterous to think they can mastermind anything

2021/12/02 00:06, Ulvian:   
@Ytinas -

If that's the conclusion you arrived at - that the US government needs 'adequate funding' - especially in light of something as disruptive as COVID-19, then there really isn't anything left to say to you.

2021/12/02 19:46, Ytinas: 
FDA isnít the government, itís part of. And 10 employees to handle all of the FDAís accountability is too little, especially under current circumstances. If FDA canít scale that number, they are underfunded. If they wonít, they should fire a director and hire a couple of controllers instead. For reference: US government spending on FDA is on par with the marketing spend of any of the big 10 pharma companies.

You could drastically reduce your governments spending, AND at the same time increase accountability. Good place to start with is reduce spending on toys.
Or, start spending on accountability, that wil result in less money given to friends for toys.

2021/12/03 01:21, Arcanum:   
There is a thread of dr john b posts that is of another level compared to ours. It is a miracle twiter still has it, considering twiter works hard to censor anything contradicting the officially pushed propaganda. As its flow of data updates i repost the link
[submitted link]

it also made me think of how would our little colony of 'mudcrabs' try to argue those posts. would they try labelling poster and posts with 'retard', 'misinformation' etc or claim the flow consists of 'isolated cases' and 'anecdotes'. would they try to twist what was said. would they pick the most unimportant fragment of a post and then start arguing against it. my conclusion is they would just try hard to ban the thread and think out loud 'what an ass, posting the facts like that'.

2021/12/03 11:48, Ytinas: 
A lot of misinformation is left alone sadly.

Quick scan of that profiles messages:
- plastic waste is a problem. Some of those face masks appear to exceed RoHS levels for Cd at least, and selling them is illegal in the EU at least. Having said that, this is a plastics problem, not a face mask problem. But the Dr seems to understand that. Will you?
-other info he brings up is sensible enough. Could use more context, but he doesnít seem to provide much so thatís consistent enough.
-once again, compare the vaccine numbers vs the covid numbers:
Per 1 million vaccines 20 cases myocarditis for 12-17y
Per 1 million Covid infections 20 hospitalizations for 12-17y
Per 1 million covid infections 450 myocarditis for 12-17y

So, useful information, moderately sourced. Ok place for you to start doing your homework. Still not an excuse for outrage and playing victim.

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