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2003/01/09 15:03, Porien: 
Duh, seems i have to put smiles every time i'am not 100% serious etc.
All i wanted to show is that bears are able to grow up to poweres of some charecter of the book and other races at the same point are not.
There are 9 Nazguls and one beorn. 9 rings which realy could pop and one alive creature.
Of course bn's gaining ringwraith powers is dumb, as dumb as a usual beorning gaining powers of beorn (or his sons?). Not as dumb as third side of war and zaugurz orcs popping out all of sudden, of course. And far not as dumb as non-existand at all evil men races and evil men warriors.

2003/01/09 15:25, Drakmar:   
Porien you can't comepare the powers of a beorning to a ringwraith, it's like comparing sting to a regular shortsword.

2003/01/09 15:41, Zeveron:   
I wanna find those lost rings given to us dwarves in our halls of stone !!

2003/01/09 17:04, Porien: 
How can you 'compare' anything written in the book or made by some guys in the game to the book at all ? You can compare two game's weapons/spells/races when they are hardcoded and only very approximatly compare the powers of some creatures from the book.

And thouse dwarven rings ... i heard different versions about em. SOme says Sauron got his hand on them. On the other hand like half of the 'continue the Tolkien' books are based on either Dwarven rings or Nazgul rings.

2003/01/09 18:43, Ôstu:   
'Tolkienism' is much lower priority that 'Playability and Balance' when it comes to new races,objects, mobiles, skills and so on. The only exception that comes to mind: zones, general area design of Mume is very Tolkienish (and I like it).

Let me push on it again: PLAYABILITY first, TOLKIEN second. It's a PK mud. No One Ring for you, no player controlled Ents, no dark side warriors unaffected by sun (say good bye to Uruk-Hai and Olog-Hai), lousy decadent version of darkie casters. For some things there is 'tolkien' excuse, for some aren't. Live with it.

2003/01/09 19:23, Porien: 
I'am living with it. :p but i can whine about it meanwhile also !

2017/06/28 22:55, Merarl: 
[submitted link]

2017/07/14 17:24, Merarl: 
New idea, the race will be Dunlendings, but they have no Guilds. They can only Prac from other Humans, (Eriadoran, Dúnedain, Rohirrim, Beornings, Black Númenóreans). Assuming they don't get killed!


2017/07/19 05:29, Rashnak: 
Merarl: ' They can only Prac from other Humans [...] Assuming they don't get killed! '

Doesn't promote in-char playing. For example, I will help your dunlending to prac, because your elf was nice to me. Nonsense.

IF such limitations to praccing were implemented, they should come without such direct player interactions.

Not that I necessarily agree with such path, but for example, access to Dunlending guild could require some simple quests in addition to gaining levels. And those quests could range from bringing horse meat at low level to bringing scalps at higher levels.

2017/07/19 14:04, Barret:   
Relying on other players would also be terrible during the all too common times when no suitable players were on or available.

Consider the dilemma of Lorien. Lorien is cool and it has guilds and shops that are unique and useful to pukes of all races. It is an interesting RP concept for only elves to be allowed in the city by default and all others to have to complete a quest to gain free entry.

If elves were consistently in and around Lorien it would work pretty well. It requires players not to be jerks, but that is the norm. However, the current state of the player base makes Lorien extremely frustrating. I think that's why the gods added a quest you could initiate from the outside to gain access to Lorien.

Barring a huge and persistent change in the average number of players online, anything that hamstrings a type of character when a different type is not available is a terrible idea.

2017/07/19 16:52, Merarl: 
Yeah, and I think it was mentioned before the cross race stuff would be a nightmare.

I like Rashnak's idea about quest training.

If this were considered, I'm assuming it would be severely limited. Ranger and Thief Guild only, maybe some crappy warrior skills like endurance and parry?

Your next question is probably why go through the effort though? How many play Zaugs? I guess that would be the best comparison.

2017/07/20 06:54, Rashnak: 
Merarl, I'm pretty sure that idea of new race was discussed in another topic quite recently, and Dunlendings were also mentioned.

My idea and justification for playable Dunlending race in that discussion was, that this race would not be fixed to certain side in the war. Specifically, their leader (Broghha) would dynamically alter their affiliation according to some parameters, if not completely randomly - and the players would have to adapt to that. One day they could be friends with orcs, the other day they would have to attack any orc on sight.

2017/07/20 12:01, Elestir:  edited 1x   
You mean one day they would trade shining (or also rare evil eq like twisted crowns) with whities and next day with darkies? :-)

Ain't gonna happen IMO.

2017/07/20 15:16, Barret:   
I think there are way to many problems with the idea of characters who switch allegiance in the war to be worth implementing. If nothing else, they would have serious alignment issues.

However, I think it might be interesting if mobs switched allegiance, especially if it could be triggered by player interaction. Imagine if all of Dunland were kind of like a conquerable fortress.

It would start off in it's current state, friendly to men of all types and agg to everyone else.

If players on any side of the war killed Broghha, or maybe only if they tried and FAILED to kill Broghha, then all of Dunland would go agg to players of that side for a time.

If players completed some tough new quest for Broghha, then all of Dunland would become friendly to that side. Having the quest item would allow a character of any side/race to enter broghha as well. This would allow orc or elf players to trigger the new functionality instead of requiring a suitable human. It would also provide a sneaky way to go after a bn or puke trying to hide in Broghha.

If players of a non-friendly side killed Broghha, then the state of Dunland would return to the default.

Perhaps when Dunland is friendly to a side it could provide some additional benefit as well. Perhaps there would be a pick or kit upgrade that could only be obtained from a Dunlending mob while the region was aligned with your race. Perhaps, there would be a smith who would repair (non-shining) weapons and armor in Dunland for players of whichever side was aligned with Dunland. Perhaps there could be a rent mob who would let characters of the aligned side rent down there.

2017/07/20 16:31, Lindisse:   
I like Barret's idea of all dunlandings switching side through player interaction.

2017/07/20 16:44, Merarl: 
Damn, that's a good idea.

2017/07/23 16:57, Rashnak: 
Elestir: 'You mean one day they would trade shining (or also rare evil eq like twisted crowns) with whities and next day with darkies?'

Technical issue that can be solved with some imagination. For example the race could have so serious rent issues that dumping eq to Broghha or whatever eq sink mob would almost always be preferred over handing it to any other race.

The side switching could occur relatively rarely and randomly, thus making it very expensive for someone to hold onto (for example) twisted crowns while waiting for allegiance switch to Sauron.

If it occassionally happens, I don't necessarily even consider it a major issue. No idea whether such is a noidea already.

My basic reasoning behind uncertain or variable allegiance of this race goes back to Saruman, who ultimately rules the land that Dunlending occupy, and he is a known side-switcher himself. Broghha would listen to him.

Barret: 'If nothing else, they would have serious alignment issues. '

Easy to solve. Give them fixed neutral align with no option to change it either way. If not technically possible or not reasonable to fix it that way, then give them big stat penalties for having any other alignment than neutral, thus forcing players to fix it for themselves.

These would all be new challenges, which are needed to justify a new player race of any kind.

2017/07/23 21:22, Elestir:   
@Rashnak Except if they have such rent issues with good eq, almost no1 will bother playing them. Just take a look at Zorcs.

Other than that the idea of neutral race with enforced/encouraged neutral alignment is interesting.

2017/07/24 14:17, Rashnak: 
Elestir: 'Except if they have such rent issues with good eq, almost no1 will bother playing them'

That again depends on how far you want to go with the interesting things like variable allegiance between good side and Sauron's forces.

For example, could you have varying access to good/evil towns, rather than being limited to wilderness?

I think for most players (especially in the non-PK/newbie range) access to shops and safe havens outside ZOC is major turnoff with Zorcs.

That could be different with Dunlendings. Exping from safety of Bree one day, and doing NOC XP the other day - or PKing the same way.

2017/07/24 14:35, Eldaril: 
You can just make them !shining and give them decent eq options that are !all_other_races...

2017/07/24 17:10, Algroth: 
Rashnak - You are making very poor assumptions and guesses about people in general, if you think the 'side switching' will happen few and far between. It's the loot corpse argument all over again :p it will always happen when it suits the player best.

BTW I love the idea of neutral races. Access to more towns and safe havens then bns etc.. Good stuff. Hopefully i'll see it sooner then later :)

2017/07/24 17:24, Rashnak: 
Algroth: 'guesses about people in general, if you think the 'side switching' will happen few and far between'

Not sure that I follow. Did you interpret my idea so, that players would get to choose when the side switched? No. It would be ordered by Broghha or Saruman. Whether it suits a specific player or not.

2017/08/28 22:24, Strori: 
let's go Dragon lance way and make hill and mountain dwarves

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